tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post6462362338488369537..comments2024-03-21T19:03:19.133-04:00Comments on Where there had been darkness...: Roger Zelazny Book Review: ChangelingJugularjoshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03768939120752611597noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-58370829893626452562018-03-23T09:40:41.303-04:002018-03-23T09:40:41.303-04:00Another point: the battle between Pol and Mark is ...Another point: the battle between Pol and Mark is another example of RZ’s common motif of battling twins. (I emailed Josh a couple of years ago with a list of other examples for possible inclusion in the drinking game page).Raymund Eichhttp://raymundeich.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-42671323889940604822018-03-19T22:31:50.679-04:002018-03-19T22:31:50.679-04:00Long time RZ fan here. I just read this for the fi...Long time RZ fan here. I just read this for the first time. Definitely lightweight—reading that it originated as a treatment for an animated movie makes me view it as appropriate for that context.<br /><br />Am I the only one who noticed that Pol Detson’s father Det Morson was defeated by a sorcerer named Mor? In other words, Mor was Pol’s grandfather?<br /><br />Lastly, I read the same used paperback edition that Josh took the cover art from. And I was walloped with nostalgia by the typeface. It’s the same typeface as an Ace Books omnibus edition of Fred Saberhagen’s Empire of the East that I reread multiple times as a teen. Raymund Eichhttp://raymundeich.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-38366888256421368622011-11-01T06:43:24.739-04:002011-11-01T06:43:24.739-04:00I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you. ...I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you. Yesterday was my birthday and I was celebrating.<br /><br />Anon: "A book is never good or bad in the absolute, but it's good or bad relatively to a given context. And I do believe this one is so great for young boys like I was, which might actually well be much more important than pleasing adults, isn't it ?"<br /><br />I absolutely agree with what you are saying here. I judged the book harshly because I had come to it with such high expectations. I think Zelazny was a prodigiously talented author, but never cultivated the particular set of skills to be an equally compelling children's/young adult author. <br /><br />However, as you say, there is considerable merit in cultivating a child's love for these things when they are young. I think it's a kind of funny coincidence that you mentioned that you read it in French as a kid, because I've heard this school of thought referred to as the "French Pastry Philosophy". <br /><br />When my daughter was four years old, we took her to a puppet show where the marionettes performed the motions to classical pieces while an orchestra in the background played the music. After the show, the director described it as a "French Pastry" school of thought, meaning that if you give a kid a French pastry when he or she is young, the kid will think, "Hey, maybe the French are kind of cool," and likewise, if you expose them at an early age to Classical music in a really engaging fashion, they'll have that spark of interest as they get older and may be more receptive to it as they get older.<br /><br />To conclude, I don't think that I could have appreciated the book, being where I was in my life when I read it, but I'm glad that someone else could.Jugularjoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768939120752611597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-65827725232239524352011-10-31T09:18:06.300-04:002011-10-31T09:18:06.300-04:00Don't forget young readers ! I read this book ...Don't forget young readers ! I read this book when I was a boy (in French), and I just loved it as my favorite fantasy book. I preferred this book far more than the "Amber" serie for instance, probably because it was more adapted to my age at that time. Now, 30 years later, it's still marvelous in my memory - and I think it's probably best if I don't reread it, as I don't want to be disappointed. That story might (in part) be the reason why I kept up reading fantasy for so long. So I think it's important not to forget the context when you're reading: your age, emotional state, background, previous readings... A book is never good or bad in the absolute, but it's good or bad relatively to a given context. And I do believe this one is so great for young boys like I was, which might actually well be much more important than pleasing adults, isn't it ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-18865312068285786222011-06-29T19:01:21.071-04:002011-06-29T19:01:21.071-04:00Just finished reading this book for the first time...Just finished reading this book for the first time, and I'm not entirely sure what to think about it. For the first third of it or so, I was REALLY into it. I loved the setup and liked seeing how both Pol and Mark dealt with growing up in worlds not meant for them.<br /><br />Then the middle happened, and my reading slowed a lot. I generally use that as a gauge to understand how much I'm liking a book.<br /><br />I agree that Mark was more interesting, and for me, I don't think it was because of his character traits that you've pointed out so much as his situation: he was the tech-guy in the fantasy world. That's interesting. When Pol came over to fantasy-land, he quickly dropped his modern-world roots and became the fantasy-guy in the fantasy-world. This, unfortunately, was not as interesting as Mark's contrast; and, even more unfortunately, it became the focus of the book and resulted in a large portion of the text becoming "standard fantasy novel" (instead of "fantasy novel with awesome sci-fi mix).<br /><br />That being said, overall, I actually enjoyed the book quite a bit. The middle was slow, for sure, but that first third and the last few chapters were enough to leave me with pleasant memories.Zachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07692070094174090593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-51725084681511637452011-04-06T11:53:20.729-04:002011-04-06T11:53:20.729-04:00I would agree with that. Mark descends from fundam...I would agree with that. Mark descends from fundamentally decent guy to all-but tying villagers to the railroad tracks in very short order.Jugularjoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768939120752611597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-23103149925340160012011-04-06T11:35:10.326-04:002011-04-06T11:35:10.326-04:00just discovered these reviews as i've been re-...just discovered these reviews as i've been re-reading a lot of zelazny stuff myself and wanted to comment on this book. i loved this book when i was a kid but it really hasn't held up as well as his other stuff. namely i think this is his worst written book that i've read. his minimalistic style feels like a huge detraction in this book.<br />Meanwhile the most interesting thing it does in the beginning is set up both Mark and Pol as possible heroes, and yet Mark seems to turn on a dime once the book starts following Pol more closely, and Mark just becomes a classic villain. <br />Really though the book collapses once it gets to the quest because its obvious it just didnt know what else to do.<br />All that said, i read Madwand as well and that book i still liked a lot. It is so much better and contains so much more despite being the same length as Changling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-73523346983166181782011-03-22T08:57:53.337-04:002011-03-22T08:57:53.337-04:00Heh heh, thanks. I felt it apt.Heh heh, thanks. I felt it apt.Jugularjoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768939120752611597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-37948786152892618102011-03-22T07:41:33.975-04:002011-03-22T07:41:33.975-04:00By the way, the end of your review, with the link ...By the way, the end of your review, with the link to the bass battle, is hilarious.<br /><br />--Chris DeVitoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-85038052964289154842011-03-21T09:10:14.417-04:002011-03-21T09:10:14.417-04:00Yeah, I'll agree with that. The imagery is ver...Yeah, I'll agree with that. The imagery is very vivid and quite evocative.Jugularjoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768939120752611597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-25008092654708880742011-03-20T23:28:23.379-04:002011-03-20T23:28:23.379-04:00When Changeling was first published I really hated...When Changeling was first published I really hated it, probably even more than you do now, JJ -- all those dragons and wizards and some dude with a magic tattoo who periodically pulls out his guitar for a strum-a-long, and all that kind of crap. It was one of the books that put me off Zelazny for a long time.<br /><br />Now, having just reread it for the first time in 30 years, I don't dislike it nearly as much. Maybe I've just mellowed over the decades. I still find the characters annoying and the plot kind of silly, but it's a very visual story with lots of nice imagery. And Mousehead, or whatever his name is -- the thief -- gives some nice advice about the downside of seeking revenge and almost approaches being an interesting character. I may never crack this one open again, but I don't regret rereading it.<br /><br />Not exactly a ringing endorsement I guess . . . moderately entertaining minor Zelazny.<br /><br />--Chris DeVitoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-77713455526903807282010-12-22T14:28:28.417-05:002010-12-22T14:28:28.417-05:00Yup, you're of course correct. I knew I wasn&#...Yup, you're of course correct. I knew I wasn't recalling the details of that exactly, and as soon as you mentioned it, I remembered. You continue to impress me with the depth of your knowledge.Jugularjoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768939120752611597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-82061445930232624812010-12-22T14:02:28.336-05:002010-12-22T14:02:28.336-05:00By the "then-current project" mentioned ...By the "then-current project" mentioned in one of his books, you may be thinking of the dust jacket flap of ROADMARKS, which mentioned that Zelazny was then working on an animated film which involved American Indian mythology. That was a different project, and it also fell through, as most motion picture projects seem fated to end. But his work on that project may have inspired him to write EYE OF CAT.<br /><br />Chris KovacsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-9060126796382546872010-12-22T09:19:10.344-05:002010-12-22T09:19:10.344-05:00CK: Changeling was originally commissioned as the ...CK: Changeling was originally commissioned as the treatment for an animated film. <br /><br />Thanks for clearing that up. I'm pretty sure I recall knowing that prior to reading it in the Collected Works. I think it must have been mentioned as a then-current project in the "About the Author" section in one of his books.<br /><br />CK: I know that there are many readers who say that Changeling/Madwand is their favorite of Zelazny's works, so opinions do vary widely.<br /><br />Indeed. And these commentaries are simply opinion pieces at their core. <br /><br />CK: Zelazny's original film outline for Changeling is in Nine Black Doves: V5 of The Collected Stories of Roger Zelazny. And the story of the genesis of Changeling and Madwand is described in the section of the biography that is within Last Exit to Babylon: V4 of The Collected Stories of Roger Zelazny. Deathmask is described briefly in the biography contained within V5.<br /><br />Wow, somehow I missed all of those. I'll have to go back and read them. Thanks for the tip!Jugularjoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768939120752611597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504598332261057441.post-13627186701366225152010-12-22T07:03:07.727-05:002010-12-22T07:03:07.727-05:00Changeling was originally commissioned as the trea...Changeling was originally commissioned as the treatment for an animated film. The project was later abandoned because the company didn't want it. Some time later Zelazny was asked by editor Jim Baen (then at Ace Books) to write a new fantasy novel, and he decided to use his film treatment as the basis for that novel. The novel actually sold really well and that prompted the request for a sequel, what became Madwand. And it was supposed to become a trilogy with the concluding volume Deathmask, but Zelazny never got around to writing it despite saying several times that he would. Madwand was certainly more mature and darker than Changeling.<br /><br />I know that there are many readers who say that Changeling/Madwand is their favorite of Zelazny's works, so opinions do vary widely. I consider these two books to be lighter fare and not his best.<br /><br />Zelazny's original film outline for Changeling is in Nine Black Doves: V5 of The Collected Stories of Roger Zelazny. And the story of the genesis of Changeling and Madwand is described in the section of the biography that is within Last Exit to Babylon: V4 of The Collected Stories of Roger Zelazny. Deathmask is described briefly in the biography contained within V5.<br /><br />Chris KovacsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com